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Re(2): [ox] Die Anwendbarkeit der Werttheorie in der Informatik

liste Steph. Mtz. comments on Graham:
I don't think so, because use value does only exist in combination
with (exchange) value. If value is absent use value is not present
too. I got a reply from Ralf, and I know that this point is not part
of a consensus. Anyway, let's check it ...

In general, I think these categories are only categories for
value-based economies. They are not valid in an ontological sense,
at least, you always have to clarifiy the status of these


Let me support Stephans point, I also had a controversy with 
Ralf on that point and I feel Stephan is perfectly right:

The concept of use-value is the total neutrality concerning
the usage of the commodity. Thus it is much closer to
the concept of "usefulness" of the subjective value - theories
than most Marxists would believe. It is a concept 
limited to capitalist societies:

If we use Marx method and imagine another society
which is producing its product on the base of anticipation,
the concept of "use-value" would not make sense. The
"use-value" which just means the product must fulfill
any (!) given human need - which of course is not 
the interesting point, but the ability of this need to
pay for the commodity  - is a totally abstract concept
of the purpose of production, which can only make sense
if the goal of production is *value*. Of course value and
use-value are not the same, use-value is just the
"shadow" of value, the neccesary evil for the producer
of the commodity. Without use value, no value.

Marx puts a lot of emphasis on the distinction, 
but he never reflects on the historic and genetic
connection between these two concepts - (neither
does he reflect the historic connection between
abstract and concrete labour, which is emphasized
by the Krisis group).

The incredible progress of capitalist society is in
fact to unfold a universe of possible needs and uses
of material wealth. In their commentary on 
Marx book, the AK Muenchen 25 years ago stressed
the fact that the universality of the use-value-concept
does in fact reflect that society does not derive its laws
from nature any more. One could say this is in fact 
the concept of Marx, but at this very point in time (1975),
according to the findings of research on Indexes
for Sustainabilty and Economic Welfare, the capitalist
economy was at the turnig point where increase of
production began to turn into decrease of gross 
sustainability and welfare. We now can see that 
the concept of single-side usefulness is an unsustainable
one and no rational production furthermore can escape the
imperative to produce according to multidimensional 
requirements of reproductiveness, sustainability,
safety, degradability and so on. And the old Marxist
point is simply itself subject to criticism, if Marxism
claims to have answers to fundamental concepts
of societies beyond capitalism.

Therefore the spontaneous recognition of the
intrinsic links between value and the so called use-value
marks a remarkable progress in social theory beyond
Marx. One could assume this is in line with the
intention of the critique of political economy and
it allows us to sharper distinguish the concepts
of market economies from post market economies.


Organisation: projekt

[English translation]
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